|
Post by psalm113v9 on Mar 4, 2011 15:29:41 GMT -5
Hi all, today I just found out I'm having my fourth miscarriage I think the last was a BO also, today they used the term so for sure. I had ultrasounds at 6w5d and today is 7w1d. I have another appt with my regular OB (other appt were at the infertility clinic) on Monday in which I would be 7w4d. Is it reasonable to give up hope at that point? I do have a tipped uterus but I have had three successful pregnancies and I could see all of them by 5 and 6 weeks easily. My last miscarriage was horrible - I elected to try natural rather than d&c and I ended up hemorrhaging really bad and ended up in the emergency room in the middle of the night - I am terrified of repeating that experience! So, is 7w4d too early to give up? I'm still in denial, since my pg symptoms are so strong. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by meeko08(Lisa) on Mar 4, 2011 21:15:52 GMT -5
When you give up is up to you. I think we all hit a point where we knew it was over. It was different for all of us. I was over 12 wks with two of my m/c when I found out. My other was a chemical so I never had doubts with mine but I know many ladies on here knew right away and others went a month or more since the original diagnosis and some had good outcomes and other didn't but I think it is different for all of us when exactly we give up hope.
We are here for you no matter what the outcome. I am so sorry you have to go through this again. Please keep us updated on how you are doing. This is a wonderful and supportive little community and we understand what you are going through. (((HUGS)))
|
|
cubs
Senior Member
Posts: 395
|
Post by cubs on Mar 4, 2011 21:50:07 GMT -5
I agree with Lisa. Do whats best for you. I was 13 weeks when I was told I had a BO so I had no doubt. If you are not ready to give up hope yet then wait until you are ready. Don't feel pressure from anyone to make any decisions until you are ready.
I'm also sorry you are going through this again and my thoughts are with you.
|
|
|
Post by existential27 on Mar 4, 2011 22:21:12 GMT -5
I agree there's no set point to give up hope. Are you fairly certain of when you conceived, give or take a few days? Honestly, I would be very concerned if I wasn't seeing a fetal pole by 3 to 3 1/2 weeks from the date of a positive pregnancy test. I also have a very titled uterus, but still was able to see DS on US at 6 weeks 1 day. I'm also curious if you have had hcg levels done? If so, are they within the normal range for your dates? Are they doubling like they should? Also, with your US, are they seeing anything? If it's an empty sac, is the size on track for your dates? And, with each US, is there any growth or change? A small sac at first might suggest your dates are off and you not as far along as you think. But, if that sac continues to be small in later US, that's not a good sign. Also, if the sac is bigger than a certain size without a fetal pole, that's not a good sign. More obvious signs are when the sac begins to collapse.
A D&C is a very final procedure, and it's not uncommon for some women to question after the fact if they should have waited longer to be certain it was a blighted ovum-- even though there was plenty of evidence at the time that it was not going to be a successful pregnancy. So, make sure you have the confirmation you need to be certain.
I can definitely understand why you would not want to go the natural route again-- I had a D&C for my BO, and the procedure itself was very quick, without complications, and even without much physical pain or discomfort afterwards.
I'm so sorry you are going through this, and for your previous losses. This is a great place to come for support!
KC
|
|
|
Post by mzr on Mar 5, 2011 12:14:55 GMT -5
I am so sorry for all your losses. They are never easy but it sounds like you had an especially rough time with your previous loss so I'm sure that only adds to your worries this time.
I agree with the other ladies that when you decide to "give up hope" really is a personal decision. For me, I needed two ultrasounds and falling HCG levels to believe the diagnosis. That was at 8wk and the sac was measuring with the dates of LMP so it was clearly the right diagnosis. But, like you, I had pg symptoms too so it took a while for my body to catch up even after my brain was able to accept it. And, for me, I just wanted everything to be over (and we were going on vacation to a friend's wedding so I didn't want to go thru a natural m/c away from home) so I opted for the D&C. But, I also firmly believe that if you have even a smidgen of hope (dates are off or tilted uterus), it's better to wait. You want to make sure you are SURE for your own mental health and healing.
Again, I am so sorry and I am glad that you have found this site for support. And I hope have some answers as quickly as possible. WAiting is one of the hardest parts.
Take care and know that we are always here for you, Marisa
|
|
|
Post by psalm113v9 on Mar 5, 2011 21:23:45 GMT -5
Thanks for your support! I'm certain on my dates because I was on infertility drugs. I do have a tilted uterus but I did see my other 3 children that early, though it was really difficult with one of them. I do wonder if my uterus tilted more though because on the follicle scan prior to conception, you could see my uterus folded over, and it has never looked like that before. They said the sac looked good - nice and round, but they didn't measure it. I know during one of my other miscarriages it was all smooshed and misshapen. They didn't check my HCG levels at all, which after reading these and other boards for hours, it seems like most other doctors do. I'm going back to my Ob/Gyn this week so we'll see what he does differently than the infertility clinic. Well they did check them early on when we confirmed the pregnancy and they were very good, perfectly normal. This morning I woke up all nauseous and just felt miserable that I was still sick and not really pregnant. *sigh* I hate this.
|
|
|
Post by mzr on Mar 6, 2011 10:46:39 GMT -5
It sounds like you still have hope, sweetie. So, I would hold on a bit longer. Good luck this week and keep us posted. Hugs!
|
|
|
Post by meeko08(Lisa) on Mar 6, 2011 11:55:06 GMT -5
Good luck! I am crossing everything I can that you have a good outcome. My thoughts are with you. Please keep us updated. (((HUGS)))
|
|
|
Post by existential27 on Mar 6, 2011 14:20:55 GMT -5
With my BO pregnancy, my doctor did not order hcg levels until I had the first US at 6 1/2 weeks, showing a smaller than expected empty sac. My first levels were only in the 900's, not good for the 6 week range. Then 48 hrs later, they had only gone up slightly. I actually started miscarrying the next day, and went on to have a D&C that afternoon.
Hcg levels aren't always helpful-- some women definitely have normal hcg levels for quite awhile with BOs. Hcg levels are more telling when they are not what they should be-- i.e. too low, not doubling in 48-96 hrs, or declining. It seems that women with higher hcg levels tend to have lots of symptoms, and it takes longer for them to get to the point of miscarrying. So, it may or may not be helpful for you to have hcg levels done again.
I wouldn't give up yet. Hopefully, your next US will give more insight into the situation. I hope it's a good outcome!
KC
|
|
|
Post by psalm113v9 on Mar 6, 2011 22:53:17 GMT -5
Thank you all, I'm clinging to hope... but I have had so many disappointments it's hard. I'll update tomorrow after my next scan - I hate when I'm following these kind of threads and the poster never lets us know how it ends!
|
|
|
Post by psalm113v9 on Mar 7, 2011 17:27:24 GMT -5
Well today's scan showed an empty sac still. It wasn't deformed or anything, no signs of bleeding just plain empty. They didn't measure it or check my HCG levels. I elected to wait one more week and double check, I'm also scheduling a d&c for the next day. So, I've had a couple of blighted ovums now apparently. Does that mean bad egg quality? Can I do something to improve that? I'm 33, have PCOS, and have managed to have three so far. I just really want one more!
|
|
|
Post by carlsangel on Mar 7, 2011 21:40:41 GMT -5
Psalm~ so sorry for your loss! I have 6 kids, but also have had 2 b/o's and a chemical, so I don't think it has as much to do with egg quality as much as chance. Sometimes it can just be a chromosome problem with the egg or sperm, if you figure what a miracle it takes for everything to line up correctly, I wouldn't place any blame on yourself or egg quality. I also hemmoraged with my last b/o in December, and it was a very scary experience. I'm praying for you and the road ahead! Hugs! ~Hannah~
|
|
|
Post by mzr on Mar 8, 2011 5:52:23 GMT -5
I agree with Hannah that, given your three healthy pregnancies, it is probably just "bad luck" that you have had two BOs rather than something wrong with you or DH. I'm not sure where you live or what your insurance is like, but most insurance companies in the US will cover genetic testing after three losses (though some require it to be three consecutive losses). BOs typically do occur because of genetic problems in the egg or sperm at the time of conception and have nothing to do with mom or dad's genetics. It is just random chance. As women, we are born with all our eggs so it's just random chance which one is released the month we get pg. Some studies suggest that as many as 75% of conceptions will miscarry though most of these occur before the woman even knows she is pregnant. And once a woman knows she is pregnant, the chance of loss can be as high as 30% (so 1 in 3 pregnancies). Like Hannah said, a lot has to go right for an egg + a sperm to make a healthy baby. Again, you've had 3 healthy pregnancies even with your PCOS so my guess is that your general egg quality is fine and your losses were just random chance. Though it doesn't seem fair that some women have multiple losses while others have none. But, that is life.
I hope and pray that you get your last little one. And I really think it will happen. There is a great book called "The Complete Pregnancy" or something like that, by Dr. Joel Evans. He talks about some foods you can eat to enhance egg quality. Funny, one of the things is to eat more eggs. Omega-3 in the eggs is good. You can also get this from supplements, avocados, fish, nuts, etc if you don't eat eggs. Also, vitamin B6 from supplements, leafy greens, and avocados is good for blood. And onions are good for clearing your body of toxins according to chinese medicine.
Hope this helps! Good luck and take care! Marisa
|
|
|
Post by existential27 on Mar 8, 2011 14:46:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry things didn't go better with the scan. I think it's still very hopeful for you to have that one more child, and agree that your BOs probably came down chance rather than poor egg quality. And, you still are relatively young-- I think age plays more of a role in the late 30's and 40's than the early 30's.
All the best to you!
KC
|
|
|
Post by psalm113v9 on Mar 9, 2011 23:03:15 GMT -5
I started bleeding yesterday and so went in for a d&c =( They called today to say that pathology said they didn't get much tissue so they may have to do something more... I have to go in for another scan tomorrow. *sigh* Just when I thought it was over.
|
|
|
Post by mzr on Mar 10, 2011 8:12:57 GMT -5
I'm so sorry. One thought is that I have heard your body can reabsorb some of the tissue when it recognizes an inviable pregnancy. So, hopefully, that is what happened in your body and you won't have to have another procedure. My OB followed up my D&C by checking my HCG levels at 2 weeks post D&C to see if things were returning to normal. (In my case, my HCG levels did not go back to normal but that was a REALLY rare event).
Thinking of you and good luck tomorrow! Marisa
|
|
kel023
Junior Member
Posts: 88
|
Post by kel023 on Mar 10, 2011 9:08:38 GMT -5
I am so sorry you are having to go through this. I hope that this will be over for you as soon as possible and will keep you in my thoughts. I know it's hard but hang in there. Love, Kel
|
|
|
Post by psalm113v9 on Mar 10, 2011 18:57:09 GMT -5
So it turns out that the doc didn't get the sac. My uterus is folded/tilted over and it was in a fold. The ultrasound continues to show an empty sac and I have to go in for ANOTHER d&c. Oh, and I get to pay for it again. Lucky me. I'm so depressed over this.
|
|
|
Post by existential27 on Mar 10, 2011 23:31:35 GMT -5
Wow-- I'm really sorry you have to go through the d&c again. It seems really unfair that you have to pay again, too-- an added insult. Wish I could make it better for you-- just remember and know in your heart you will get through this again, even as hard as it is right now. Hug your precious kids a little tighter, and don't lose hope.
Big hugs to you!!
KC
|
|
|
Post by psalm113v9 on Mar 11, 2011 15:52:19 GMT -5
Thanks. My hubby's been in such a rotten mood to me, like it's my fault or something. He says he doesn't blame me but then is just so mean during the times I need him the most. Thanks for giving me a place to vent and such kind words. I have my friend taking me tomorrow since I don't want my husband there He's not normally like this.
|
|
|
Post by existential27 on Mar 11, 2011 16:23:46 GMT -5
Other women on here over the years have mentioned similar behavior from their husbands while going through this. Men definitely can react to loss in different ways, not always how we wish they would. My husband pretty much didn't say or do anything, almost as if it never happened. And, since my family never knew, I couldn't turn to them for support either. It was always helpful for me to come to this board to hear the things I really needed to hear, and wasn't getting from my husband.
It's good you have a friend to take you. I hope your husband comes around soon!
|
|
|
Post by meeko08(Lisa) on Mar 11, 2011 21:32:43 GMT -5
I am sorry for your loss and for the lack of support from your husband. Mine did the same thing I think it is the combination of loss, an inability to take away your pain and some sort of attack on his masculinity thing at least that was always my guess why my husband reacted that way. Like the other ladies this site was a great source of support through everything.
|
|
|
Post by mzr on Mar 12, 2011 9:51:59 GMT -5
OMG! I am appalled that you have to pay for the 2nd D&C! It clearly sounds like it was the doctor's fault for not being thorough. I've heard of tissue getting left behind but the whole sac? It just seems like he should have been more proactive given his knowledge of your tilted uterus. I'm so sorry.
And I'm also sorry about your DH. I agree with the other women that I'm sure it has more to do with his own personal reaction to the SITUATION rather than his reaction to you. I think men are raised, in general, to think of themselves as "fixers" and they are not encouraged always to express their emotions or even analyze their emotions the way women are. I'm glad you have friend who can go with you so you don't have to deal the added emotional impact that he is causing. And please know that we are always here for you for extra emotional support if you are not getting it from him. I think all of us can point to at least one (if not many many) times that we did not feel we got the support we wanted from our partners.
Hugs, Marisa
|
|
|
Post by psalm113v9 on Mar 13, 2011 12:39:46 GMT -5
Well I survived the second d&c, they overdid the anesthesia so I was out of it most of yesterday but it's over. My hubby snapped out of it, mostly, still went golfing yesterday but my friend stayed with me all day and helped with the kids. My family doesn't know, I prefer not to tell them because they don't approve of me using fertility drugs. It's easy to judge when you're not the one who loves big families and happens to be infertile with a history of recurrent miscarriages! Best of luck to you all, and thank you for giving me a safe place to vent during this. It's really nice to have understanding, nonjudgemental comments
|
|
|
Post by mzr on Mar 14, 2011 7:35:16 GMT -5
We're here for you, Psalm! Glad to hear that DH has "come to his senses" (mostly!) and I wish you a speedy recovery, physically at least.
|
|